entretien Lundi 20 décembre 2010
«Haïti est la preuve de l’échec de l’aide internationale»
- Ricardo Seitenfus: «Pour rester ici, et ne pas être terrassé par ce que je vois, j’ai dû me créer un certain nombre de défenses psychologiques.» (Paolo Woods)
Diplômé de l’Institut de hautes études internationales de Genève, le Brésilien Ricardo Seitenfus a 62 ans. Depuis 2008, il représente l’Organisation des Etats américains en Haïti. Il dresse un véritable réquisitoire contre la présence internationale dans le pays.
Le Temps: Dix mille Casques bleus en Haïti. A votre sens, une présence contre-productive…
Graduate Institute of International Studies in Geneva, Brazilian Ricardo Seitenfus 62. Since 2008, he is the Organization of American States in Haiti. It provides a real indictment against the international presence in the country
Time: Ten thousand peacekeepers Haïti. In your view, a counter-productive presence ...
Ricardo Seitenfus: The system of dispute prevention within the UN system is not adapted to the Haitian context. Haiti is not an international threat. We are not in a situation of civil war. Haiti is not Iraq or Afghanistan. Yet the Security Council, since lack of alternative, imposed peacekeepers since 2004, after the departure of President Aristide.Depuis 1990, we're here at our eighth UN mission. Haiti since 1986 and saw the departure of Jean-Claude Duvalier what I call a low-intensity conflict. We are faced with struggles for power among political actors who do not respect the democratic game. But it seems to me that Haiti, on the international stage, essentially pays for its proximity to the United States. Haiti has been the subject of negative attention from the international system. It was for the UN to freeze the power and transform Haitians into prisoners on their own island. Anxious boat people largely explain the decisions of the international community vis-à-vis Haiti. We want at any price for them to stay home.
- What prevents the normalization from Haiti?
- For two hundred years, the presence of foreign troops has alternated with that of dictators. It is force that defines international relations with Haiti and never dialogue. The original sin of Haiti, on the world stage, is its liberation. Haitians committed the unacceptable in 1804: a crime of lèse-majesté for a troubled world. The West is now a colonialist and racist slave world that bases its wealth on the exploitation of conquered lands. So the Haitian revolutionary model scared the great powers. The United States will recognize the independence of Haiti in 1865. France requires payment of a ransom to accept this reality. From the beginning, independence has compromised and impeded the country's development. The world has never known how to treat Haiti, so it ended up ignoring it. Its revolutionary independence began two hundred years of solitude on the international scene. Today, the UN blindly applies Chapter 7 of its charter, it deploys its troops to impose its peace operation. It solves nothing; it is imperialism. We want to make Haiti a capitalist country, an export platform for the U.S. market; it is absurd. Haiti must return to what it is, that is to say, a place still fundamentally imbued with customary law in an essentially agricultural country. The country is constantly described in terms of its violence. But without a state, the level of violence has not yet reached a fraction of that of Latin American countries. There are elements in this society that could prevent the violence from spreading without measure.
- Is not that a resignation of Haiti seen as an unassimilable nation whose only horizon is the return to traditional values?
- There is a part of Haiti that is modern, urban and touring abroad. The number of Haitians living outside their borders is estimated at 4 million. It is an open world. I would not dream of returning to the XVI century, in an agrarian society. Haiti, though, lives under the influence of international NGOs, universal charity. More than 90% of the education system and health are in private hands.The country has no public resources to run a minimally state system. UN fails to take account of cultural traits. Haiti summarize a peace operation is to make the economy of the real challenges that arise in the country. The problem is socio-economic. When the unemployment rate reached 80%, it is unbearable to deploy a stabilization mission. There is nothing to stabilize and everything to build.
- Haiti is one of the most subsidized countries in the world and yet the situation has only deteriorated since twenty-five years. Why?
- Emergency aid is effective. But when it becomes structural, when it replaces the state in all its functions, we arrive at a collective disempowerment. If there is evidence of the failure of international aid, it is Haiti. The country has become the Mecca. The January 12 earthquake and the cholera epidemic only accentuate this phenomenon. The international community has a sense of duty every day again it ended yesterday. Haiti fatigue begins to dawn. This small nation must surprise the universal consciousness with disasters more enormous. I hoped that in the distress of 12 January, the world would understand what it had done wrong with Haiti. Unfortunately, it has reinforced the same policy. Instead of making an assessment, we sent more troops. We must build roads, raising dams, participate in the organization of the State, the judicial system. The UN says it has no mandate for this. Its mandate in Haiti is to keep the peace of the cemetery.
- What role NGOs play in this bankruptcy?
- From the earthquake, Haiti has become a key intersection. For transnational NGOs, Haiti has turned into a place of forced passage. I would say even worse than that: a place for aid-workers' vocational training. The age of those who arrived after the earthquake is very low and they landed in Haiti without any experience. And Haiti, I can tell you, is not suitable for amateurs. After January 12, because of massive recruitment, professional quality has declined significantly. There is an evil or perverse relationship between the strength of NGOs and the weakness of the Haitian state. Some NGOs exist only because the misfortune of Haiti.
- What mistakes were made after the earthquake?
- Given the massive importation of consumer goods to feed the homeless, the situation of Haitian agriculture is still péjorée. The country offers a free field to all humanitarian experiences. It is unacceptable from the moral standpoint to consider Haiti as a laboratory. The reconstruction of Haiti and the promise that we dangled $11 billion attracts much interest. It seems that a lot of people come to Haiti, not for Haiti, but for doing business. For me, American aid is a shame, an insult to our consciousness. An example: the Haitian doctors that Cuba shape. More than 500 were educated in Havana. Almost half of them, when they should be in Haiti, are now working in the United States, Canada and France. The Cuban revolution is to finance the training of human resources for its capitalist neighbors ...
- We constantly described Haiti as the margin of the world, you rather feel the country as a concentrate our contemporary world ...
- This is the concentration of our tragedies and failures of international solidarity. We're not up to the challenge. The world press comes to Haiti and describes the chaos. The reaction of the public does not expect good things. For most, Haiti is one of the worst countries in the world. We must go to the Haitian culture, go to the terroir. I think there are too many doctors at the bedside and the majority of these doctors are economists. But in Haiti, we need anthropologists, sociologists, historians, political scientists and even theologians. Haiti is too complex for people who are in a hurry; cooperating in a hurry. Nobody takes the time or has the interest to understand what I might call the Haitian soul. Haitians have grasped us, the international community, as a cow to be milked.They want to take advantage of our presence and they do it with extraordinary skill. If we consider the Haitians only by the money we give, it's because we of the way we present ourselves.
- Beyond the acknowledgment of failure, what solutions do you propose?
- In two months, I will have completed a two-year mission in Haiti. To stay here and not be overwhelmed by what I see, I had to create a number of psychological defenses. I wanted to be an independent voice despite the weight of the organization I represent. I made my dissent public because I wanted to express my profound doubts and tell the world that this is enough of just playing with Haiti. January 12, taught me that there is a tremendous potential for solidarity in the world.Although do not forget that in the early days after the earthquake, it was the Haitians themselves, with bare hands, who tried to save their loved ones. Compassion has been very important in an emergency. But charity can not be the driving force in international relations. There should be autonomy, sovereignty, fair trade, respect for others. We need to think simultaneously of providing export opportunities for Haiti and also protect the family farming that is essential for the country.Haiti is the last untapped Caribbean paradise for tourism, with 1,700 kilometers of pristine coastline. We need to encourage cultural tourism and avoid paving the way to a new Eldorado of mass tourism. The lessons we give are ineffective for too long. Reconstruction and the accompaniment of a rich society are one of the last great human adventures. For the last 200 years, Haiti illuminated the history of humanity and the human rights. Haitians must now be given a chance to confirm their vision.
Time: Ten thousand peacekeepers Haïti. In your view, a counter-productive presence ...
Ricardo Seitenfus: The system of dispute prevention within the UN system is not adapted to the Haitian context. Haiti is not an international threat. We are not in a situation of civil war. Haiti is not Iraq or Afghanistan. Yet the Security Council, since lack of alternative, imposed peacekeepers since 2004, after the departure of President Aristide.Depuis 1990, we're here at our eighth UN mission. Haiti since 1986 and saw the departure of Jean-Claude Duvalier what I call a low-intensity conflict. We are faced with struggles for power among political actors who do not respect the democratic game. But it seems to me that Haiti, on the international stage, essentially pays for its proximity to the United States. Haiti has been the subject of negative attention from the international system. It was for the UN to freeze the power and transform Haitians into prisoners on their own island. Anxious boat people largely explain the decisions of the international community vis-à-vis Haiti. We want at any price for them to stay home.
- What prevents the normalization from Haiti?
- For two hundred years, the presence of foreign troops has alternated with that of dictators. It is force that defines international relations with Haiti and never dialogue. The original sin of Haiti, on the world stage, is its liberation. Haitians committed the unacceptable in 1804: a crime of lèse-majesté for a troubled world. The West is now a colonialist and racist slave world that bases its wealth on the exploitation of conquered lands. So the Haitian revolutionary model scared the great powers. The United States will recognize the independence of Haiti in 1865. France requires payment of a ransom to accept this reality. From the beginning, independence has compromised and impeded the country's development. The world has never known how to treat Haiti, so it ended up ignoring it. Its revolutionary independence began two hundred years of solitude on the international scene. Today, the UN blindly applies Chapter 7 of its charter, it deploys its troops to impose its peace operation. It solves nothing; it is imperialism. We want to make Haiti a capitalist country, an export platform for the U.S. market; it is absurd. Haiti must return to what it is, that is to say, a place still fundamentally imbued with customary law in an essentially agricultural country. The country is constantly described in terms of its violence. But without a state, the level of violence has not yet reached a fraction of that of Latin American countries. There are elements in this society that could prevent the violence from spreading without measure.
- Is not that a resignation of Haiti seen as an unassimilable nation whose only horizon is the return to traditional values?
- There is a part of Haiti that is modern, urban and touring abroad. The number of Haitians living outside their borders is estimated at 4 million. It is an open world. I would not dream of returning to the XVI century, in an agrarian society. Haiti, though, lives under the influence of international NGOs, universal charity. More than 90% of the education system and health are in private hands.The country has no public resources to run a minimally state system. UN fails to take account of cultural traits. Haiti summarize a peace operation is to make the economy of the real challenges that arise in the country. The problem is socio-economic. When the unemployment rate reached 80%, it is unbearable to deploy a stabilization mission. There is nothing to stabilize and everything to build.
- Haiti is one of the most subsidized countries in the world and yet the situation has only deteriorated since twenty-five years. Why?
- Emergency aid is effective. But when it becomes structural, when it replaces the state in all its functions, we arrive at a collective disempowerment. If there is evidence of the failure of international aid, it is Haiti. The country has become the Mecca. The January 12 earthquake and the cholera epidemic only accentuate this phenomenon. The international community has a sense of duty every day again it ended yesterday. Haiti fatigue begins to dawn. This small nation must surprise the universal consciousness with disasters more enormous. I hoped that in the distress of 12 January, the world would understand what it had done wrong with Haiti. Unfortunately, it has reinforced the same policy. Instead of making an assessment, we sent more troops. We must build roads, raising dams, participate in the organization of the State, the judicial system. The UN says it has no mandate for this. Its mandate in Haiti is to keep the peace of the cemetery.
- What role NGOs play in this bankruptcy?
- From the earthquake, Haiti has become a key intersection. For transnational NGOs, Haiti has turned into a place of forced passage. I would say even worse than that: a place for aid-workers' vocational training. The age of those who arrived after the earthquake is very low and they landed in Haiti without any experience. And Haiti, I can tell you, is not suitable for amateurs. After January 12, because of massive recruitment, professional quality has declined significantly. There is an evil or perverse relationship between the strength of NGOs and the weakness of the Haitian state. Some NGOs exist only because the misfortune of Haiti.
- What mistakes were made after the earthquake?
- Given the massive importation of consumer goods to feed the homeless, the situation of Haitian agriculture is still péjorée. The country offers a free field to all humanitarian experiences. It is unacceptable from the moral standpoint to consider Haiti as a laboratory. The reconstruction of Haiti and the promise that we dangled $11 billion attracts much interest. It seems that a lot of people come to Haiti, not for Haiti, but for doing business. For me, American aid is a shame, an insult to our consciousness. An example: the Haitian doctors that Cuba shape. More than 500 were educated in Havana. Almost half of them, when they should be in Haiti, are now working in the United States, Canada and France. The Cuban revolution is to finance the training of human resources for its capitalist neighbors ...
- We constantly described Haiti as the margin of the world, you rather feel the country as a concentrate our contemporary world ...
- This is the concentration of our tragedies and failures of international solidarity. We're not up to the challenge. The world press comes to Haiti and describes the chaos. The reaction of the public does not expect good things. For most, Haiti is one of the worst countries in the world. We must go to the Haitian culture, go to the terroir. I think there are too many doctors at the bedside and the majority of these doctors are economists. But in Haiti, we need anthropologists, sociologists, historians, political scientists and even theologians. Haiti is too complex for people who are in a hurry; cooperating in a hurry. Nobody takes the time or has the interest to understand what I might call the Haitian soul. Haitians have grasped us, the international community, as a cow to be milked.They want to take advantage of our presence and they do it with extraordinary skill. If we consider the Haitians only by the money we give, it's because we of the way we present ourselves.
- Beyond the acknowledgment of failure, what solutions do you propose?
- In two months, I will have completed a two-year mission in Haiti. To stay here and not be overwhelmed by what I see, I had to create a number of psychological defenses. I wanted to be an independent voice despite the weight of the organization I represent. I made my dissent public because I wanted to express my profound doubts and tell the world that this is enough of just playing with Haiti. January 12, taught me that there is a tremendous potential for solidarity in the world.Although do not forget that in the early days after the earthquake, it was the Haitians themselves, with bare hands, who tried to save their loved ones. Compassion has been very important in an emergency. But charity can not be the driving force in international relations. There should be autonomy, sovereignty, fair trade, respect for others. We need to think simultaneously of providing export opportunities for Haiti and also protect the family farming that is essential for the country.Haiti is the last untapped Caribbean paradise for tourism, with 1,700 kilometers of pristine coastline. We need to encourage cultural tourism and avoid paving the way to a new Eldorado of mass tourism. The lessons we give are ineffective for too long. Reconstruction and the accompaniment of a rich society are one of the last great human adventures. For the last 200 years, Haiti illuminated the history of humanity and the human rights. Haitians must now be given a chance to confirm their vision.
Dissent
Al Jezeera
Haiti Libre story
Haiti Libre interview
Wikileaks article Guardian Dec. 2010
